Israel Postings
Question
I have not responded to the past few messages about the State of Israel, but I feel that DOVID's post crossed the line and I am a little disappointed that you concurred with him, Rabbi. The post might as well have been taken straight from the Neturei Karta website. Dovid states: How can it be that these staunch "religious zionists" can't see that the terror, the killing and the continuous harm to our fellow Yidden in Eretz Yisrael could very much be a result of the fact that Israel, the political entity that it is, is not what they claim it to be. The more I try to understand their viewpoint, the more I get frustrated that they believe themselves to be observant Jews. Zionism, as it is proliferated iby these "modern" groups, is, for all practical purposes, a different religion than that which our forefathers carefully handed down to us. I don't think that I need to remind you, Dovid and Rabbi Abadi, that there are many thousands of "religious zionists" whose "frumkeit" must not be questioned inany way. There are many hundreds of hesder yeshiva students who learn Torah for many years as well as fight for our right, as Jews, to have a State of our own so that the horrors of 60 years ago will never be repeated. If the State of Israel, which Dovid slanders in such an evil way, were established before the shoah there would have been a place for millions of Jews to escape instead of be at the mercy of Goyim. For that reason alone, Dovid, you should be grateful that "zionists" give their lives every day for the State that would accept you with open arms were you to ever seek shekter in it. Sure, there are many problem within Israel as there are in any government, and sure there are some real mumarim in the government. But When you, Dovid, talk about the "government" of Israel so broadly you are talking baout members of Knesset who are frum yidden - probably frumer than you. I certainly hope you weren't including HaRav Ovadia Yosef Shlit"a and members of Shas, degel hatorah, the Mafdal and many others in your comments about "the government." If you were, you have a lot of Teshuvah to do this week. I certainly hope that you aren't implying that Rav Kook z"l, Harav Mordechai Eliyahu, Rav Drukman, and the list literally goes on and on, practice a "different religion." And, finally, to say that "the greatest gollus" exists in Israel simply shows how ignorant of the fact you are. While Israel is of course not perfect, there is more Torah learning going on in Israel today than in Lakewood, Philadelphia, Scranton, and - gasp- Boro Park put together. Yes, Dovid, you may find this hard to believe as you sit in the confines of "one of the major observant communities in NY", but there is much more Torah leraning and shemirat ha mitzvot going on in Israel today than there ever was in the glorious pogrom ridden slums of Europe for which you long. wake up and smell the roses.
Answer
Answered by Aaron Abadi"thousands of "religious zionists" whose "frumkeit" must not be questioned" did he question the frumkeit (religious integrity), or was it the Zionism specifically? "as Jews, to have a State of our own so that the horrors of 60 years ago will never be repeated. " Sorry, but the only way we can control our destiny is by our actions of keeping the rules given by God. Making states is not going to help anything. In one country we get a Pogrom, in Israel we get terrorism. What's the difference? "If the State of Israel, which Dovid slanders in such an evil way, were established before the shoah there would have been a place for millions of Jews to escape instead of be at the mercy of Goyim." Absolutely ridiculous! If we were judged to be massacred, there's nothing we can do to stop it, except Teshuva! You don't know that?! Goyim are just messengers carrying out God's will. God uses bad people for his dirty work. "HaRav Ovadia Yosef Shlit"a" is he a member of the government, the Knesset?! You know that the observant ones are a minority. Why are you saying silly things. Besides, some of the observant ones need to take a real look at their honesty and integrity. There were promises of heaven & threats of hell if you don't vote for me. Come on! Don't let the politics distort your realities. "Rav Kook z"l, Harav Mordechai Eliyahu, Rav Drukman" You know he is not referring to Rabbis. Those Rabbis will agree to him. "While Israel is of course not perfect, there is more Torah learning going on in Israel today than in Lakewood, Philadelphia, Scranton, and - gasp- Boro Park put together." True! But the places that study Torah the wrong way, where they just sit for weeks and months on one or two pages of Yevamot, they are not considered in the category of Limud HaTorah. As a matter of fact, the Tzla"ch (in Berachot) explains why the wrong approach to Torah study was blamed for causing the destruction of the first Temple, because the proper Torah Study would have been powerful enough to prevent it. Today we are in a Churban, because if we are not redeemed, it is as if we got the Churban now. Why? we have such perfect Torah Study?! and the answer is of course that our Torah Study is meaningless in all those places that don't follow the Torah's instructions on how & what to learn. Priority one is Halachah that is applicable today. The next concept is "ligmor Vehadar Lisvor," first study a broad knowledge of Shas, and then go back and work each topic through. and certainly spending weeks on a page is unacceptable. The Gemara talks about this in Avoda Zara 19a & Berachot 62 or 63b & Shabbat 62 or 63a, and some other places. The Orchot Tzaddikim dedicated a full Chapter to this. The Gr"a has multiple statements against this. The Shl"a calls this way of studying "Chet Gadol VeNorah," a most serious sin. There is no-one that approves of it. The Halachah has been pretty much ousted from the Yeshivot. Then they don't have a plan for the ones that can't or don't learn, but they can't go to the army. What do they do. They're registered in a Yeshiva or Kollel, but never show up. They either work in some illegal thing or they roam the streets. Is this Torah? Is this what God wants? Let's not block out reality just because we want to make a point. Your point itself was well taken. Drop the other baloney. wake up and smell the...... coffee! AA