re: article

Asked by yakov · December 17, 2003 · Kashrut

Question

Dear Rabbi Abadi I was reading your response to the OK article and I wanted to clarify a few points 1) “Many details of the manufacturing process are significant: How hot was the cooking process? ” Why not? shulchan melachim should not be impaired by freezing after cooking or other post-cooking packaging (if it was shulchan melachim before packaging). Also from the standpoint of Bishul Akum in general, there is no chiluk made between packaged and non-packaged food. Even buying indirectly is assur as bishul akum if they cooked it without a Jew in the process. 2) “Is the food spicy? ” The Rama Yoreh Deah 95:2 Says “And all of what I have just said is when the thing is not spicy, but if it is spicy, for instance you cooked spicy things in a meat pot and even if it isn’t ben yomo, or you grind spices in a meat grinder If you eat it with Milk it is forbidden even Bdieved unless the soaked up meat flavor is batel b’shishim. And anyways it is not called a spicy thing because of the small amount of spice in it but only if it is a completely a spicy thing and a majority is like it being completely spicy.” Also see Rama Yoreh Deah 122:3 3) “Let's suppose that the consumer could be up to date on every ingredient identified on product labels. What about the ingredients that are unidentified? For example, many labels list "flavors" as an ingredient. Are they kosher? There may be several thousand ingredients in that flavor; and the company may not be so quick to disclose its composition, the secret formula that makes their product so special. What about unlisted ingredients? Several years ago, we discovered that the makers of a popular Swiss candy used a non-kosher release agent to prevent it from sticking to the processing equipment. To this day, it is not on the candy's ingredient list. AA” a) Flavors are by definition not noten taam lifgam since they are put there specifically to add taste. b) Some flavorings are edible c) even if it is less then a sixtieth something which is forbidden based on itself (not outside flavot=ring). is not mvutal even in sixty if it can be tasted as per the Rama Yoreh Deah 98:8 (flavorings by definition are meant to be tasted Thanks alot

Answer

Answered by Aaron Abadi

Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto! Is this a statement of your opinion, or a question? 1) You are trying to understand the "how come" of why packaged goods are not subject to Bishul Aku"m, so you begin working through several angles. We didn't create this law. It is not new. Look into it. Before questioning the Psakim (laws) on this site, give me the courtesy of learning it through. Must I teach you everything, or else be wrong?! If you are not of the capacity to learn through a Sugya (Jewish Law Topic) thoroughly, then maybe you shouldn't be questioning someone who has learned it? Don't ya think?! 2) Dearest Robot. You seem very learned. Did you taste that spicy thing in your milk ever?! Go learn Hilchot Taaruvot, but first learn Hilchot Talmud Torah, Hilchot Kavod Rabo, and Hilchot Derech Eretz. 3) There is a Teshuva (responsa) of the Ram"a written just for you. #53 & 54. Seems to disagree with you. Might be a good idea to discuss it with him eventually. You are insulted by my sarcasm. You should be. You have learned in a Yeshiva. You can come out of any Yeshiva with any or all of the following: Chutzpah, (Azut, Arrogance) Robotic "herd mentality" Deep depression distorted view of Jewish Law And/or a total lack of even understanding what is wrong with your Midot (character traits). Let us look at your statement. You clearly have not studied the Laws properly, or you do not have the capacity to understand them. Yet, you're very comfortable presenting your opinion. You say words like, "I wanted to clarify a few points." and you present your opinion as fact. Then to top it all off, you say in #2 about spicy foods that even though you don't taste it you cannot eat it, yet in #3 you quote the Ram"a who repeats the Gemara, which you certainly didn't learn, who says if less than 60, but you can still taste it, it's not Kosher. That is what we call a "Stirah." (contradiction) But you wouldn't understand.... Go work on your Midot. Derech Eretz Kadmah LaTorah! AA